Archive for the Papillons Category

PCA Illustrated Standard Debacle ~ Part 6

Nov 17th, 2014 Posted in Papillons | one comment »

In this post, I would like to cover some of the things that have been said by the Board, specifically the President, Kevin Ray and also several parts of the contract with Fredrick Carlson.

According to the contract with Mr. Carlson his assignment was:

Create a new set of Papillon standards art pieces per booklet used since 1991

Artwork will be black and white pencil drawings similar to Welsh Corgi and Yorkshire Terrier and Border Collie pieces shown by PCA.  Some color pieces to be determined by committee.

References from old booklet plus UK standards book ordered should be sufficient for most of the drawings.

 

The contact goes on to say (emphasis mine):

Including the cover, as this existing booklet is laid out there are spaces for 31 full-body views.  With the possibility of rescanning a correct full side view and re-using it 6 times that leaves the task of 26 new artworks I call ‘full-body’ views.

In yet another section it continues (emphasis mine):

In the existing booklet there are spaces for 48 small drawings (heads, head/eyes, muzzles, teeth, rear, feet, tail, face faults, etc.).  It looks like 4 drawings can be re-used by scanning and re-editing into new positions in the booklet, so this leaves the task of 44 new artworks I call ‘small’ views.

 

Here is a  quote from PCA President, Kevin Ray (emphasis in the original):

The current Papillon Illustrated Standard was produced from the original artwork of Fred Carlson and the language used in the last illustrated standard that was written for PCA.

First, from the sound of the of the Assignment section it sounds like someone (PCA? Stan Sohn?  Fredrick Carlson?) specifically ordered a copy of the commonly called CISPAP written by Mike Foster and Deirdre Ashdown.

cispap

CISPAP

 

Since there are plenty of photos of Papillons out there, why would they need to use yet another standards book for reference so badly that they specifically ordered it for references?   An artist should definitely look at many resource photos and maybe even initially try to copy them, but in the end they put their own style in their drawings.   This was obviously not done here, because Mr. Carlson’s drawings are instantly recognizable as Nancy Pinke’s artwork.   Having been an artist since 1980 according to his signature file on the IS contract, he certainly should have developed his own style by 2006-07.

Second, if you notice the portions of the contract that I have bolded, they talk about re-using Nancy’s original work in the new standard.   Under what definition does re-using another artists work does this equal original?    Even if Mr. Carlson’s work for the IS had been completely original, PCA would still have been guilty of copyright infringement on at least 2 pieces of Nancy’s work.

The Board has no regard for copyright as shown in the Board Meeting Minutes from April 13, 2007:

The Pembroke Welsh Corgi Club of America gave their permission, after the fact, to PCA to use their glossary format, which had been taken directly from their standard without prior permission requested.

 

The Board has also been playing the “only so many ways you can draw a Papillon card since the beginning and Kevin has specifically stated:

There is only one way to draw the ear set, tail set, topline, etc of a papillon as outlined in the breed standard & therefore artists renderings will be similar.

Deirdre was kind enough to send us some example of her work from CISPAP to show how ridiculous this claim is.

As a reminder here are Nancy Pinke’s illustration from the original IS and Fredrick Carlson’s “original” from the new IS:

 

Illustrated Standard Comparioson

Illustrated Standard Comparison 2009

 

Here is a body illustration and a tail set illustration done by Deirdre:

Deirdre Ashdown Body 1

Deirdre Ashdown Body 1

 

Deirdre Ashdown Tail Set

Deirdre Ashdown Tail Set

 

Due to the difference in the poses I can’t really compare those to Nancy’s originals, but this one is a better pose for comparison:

 

Deirdre Ashdown Body 2

Deirdre Ashdown Body 2

 

One other thing, this illustration also shows that Papillons don’t have the same markings, which I think anyone that owns or has ever seen more than one Papillon already knows, yet oddly Carlson’s Papillons all have the exact same markings as Nancy’s.  You can find a comparison in part 4.

 

So here it is:

DA-NP comparison

Comparison

 

As you can see it’s not really close at all, yet you can see from the one up above it’s definitely a Papillon and it certainly looks like it fits the standard.   There were 2 areas that I could get to align, the chest and the topline.  I chose the chest because it was a larger area.    You can see that both drawings have the same general outline/shape yet they are not anywhere close to identical.

Unlike these illustrations:

full skeleton comparison

Full Skeleton Comparison

 

new image resized

“New” Image Resized

 

Here are several head illustrations.  They were not the right pose for comparisons either, so I will just show you a refresher illustration from Nancy and Carlson and then the 2 from Deirdre.

Pinke Correct Papillon Head

Pinke Correct Papillon Head

 

Carlson Correct Papillon Head

Carlson Correct Papillon Head

 

Deirdre Ashdown Head 2

Deirdre Ashdown Head 2

 

Deirdre Ashdown Head 1

Deirdre Ashdown Head 1

 

That’s it for now.  Please remember to let other PCA members know about this issue as this is a voting year!

PCA Illustrated Standard Debacle ~ Part 5

Nov 17th, 2014 Posted in Papillons | one comment »

If you have just come to this story you can read part 1, part 2, part 3 and part 4 to catch up.

I have said since this whole thing began years ago that I doubted that even Nancy could draw the same thing with such precision as the Carlson drawings.  Nancy humored me and carved out a little time to do 2 drawings so I could compare them with her original drawings.

 

Nancy Pinke original IS

Nancy Pinke Original IS

 

Nancy pinke new sketch

Nancy Pinke New Sketch

 

Nancy Pinke compare

Comparison

 

As you can see the feet and chest align pretty well here.  I could get the tail to sort of align with enough futzing as you can probably see from this comparison with the matching front feet.  No matter how much resizing or adjustments I made I could not get the entire dog or even all parts of the dog to match up with the same accuracy that I could the Carlson drawing just by moving around the drawing to different areas of the original like you can see in part 1

 

Here are the correct head comparisons:

 

Nancy Pinke original is

Nancy Pinke Original IS

 

Nancy Pinke New sketch

Nancy Pinke New Sketch

 

Nancy Pinke Comparison

Comparison

 

You can see the same thing happens here.  I could get the muzzle to line up very nicely and the left ear is not bad, but even moving it around I could not align it with the same accuracy as I could the Carlson drawings.

For those interested in copyright this case is an interesting read regarding derivative works

PCA Illustrated Standard Debacle ~ Part 4

Oct 9th, 2014 Posted in Papillons | 2 comments »

If you are just now coming into this series late you can read part 1, part 2 and part 3 to catch up.    Today I have done comparisons on full body drawings of the correct markings section of the standard.   Apparently, in addition to only being able to draw ear and tail sets so many ways, there are also only “so many ways” you can draw markings on a Papillon.    I think it’s safe to say that anyone that has been in Papillons for even 5 minutes would find this laughable.

I’m also getting much better at being able to resize the items for even better alignment.    I wish I could manage to get scans of both at the same size so that no resizing would be necessary.  That would be eye-opening, no doubt.

Like in previous posts we will be seeing both originals and then the comparison.

Carlson Correct Markings 1

Carlson Correct Markings 1

 

Pinke Correct Markings 1

Pinke Correct Markings 1

 

Correct Markings Compare 1

Correct Markings Compare 1

 

 


 

 

Carlson Correct Markings 2

Carlson Correct Markings 2

 

Pinke Correct Markings 2

Pinke Correct Markings 2

 

Correct Markings Compare 3

Correct Markings Compare 3

 


 

 

Carlson Correct Markings 3

Carlson Correct Markings 3

 

Pinke Correct Markings 3

Pinke Correct Markings 3

 

Correct Markings Compare 3

Correct Markings Compare 3

 

I’m not really sure how many more of these are necessary to make the point that this goes well beyond being able to draw a dog only a certain way and into little more than tracing existing images.   If anyone has a particular image from the IS that they want me to compare, I’ll be happy to do that.

PCA Illustrated Standard Debacle ~ Part 3

Oct 7th, 2014 Posted in Papillons | 4 comments »

If you have missed the first installments of this series you can catch up by reading part 1 and part 2.  Today we are going to be looking at comparisons of 3 different images.

For these comparisons there will be a copy of each original and then an image with Nancy Pinke’s original superimposed over the “new” drawing.   Unfortunately, these were not scanned in at the exact same size so Nancy’s drawings look a bit washed out when enlarged to the same size as the other one.    Shrinking the Carlson ones would make it very hard to see the images properly since the images are already relatively small to begin with.

This first set of images is of the Correct Papillon Head.

 

Carlson Correct Papillon Head

Carlson Correct Papillon Head

 

Pinke Correct Papillon Head

Pinke Correct Papillon Head

 

Correct Papillon Head Compare

Correct Papillon Head Compare

 

Next we have the Correct Phalene Head.

Carlson Correct Phalene Head

Carlson Correct Phalene Head

 

pinke correct  phalene head

Pinke Correct Phalene Head

 

Correct Phalene Compare

Correct Phalene Compare

 

Finally, we have the Domed Papillon Head.

 

Carlson Domed Head

Carlson Domed Head

 

Pinke Domed Head

Pinke Domed Head

 

I was having difficulty getting this particular one to line up.  Usually they just fall right into place on top of each other, so I thought maybe there was some original work here.  I got the ears to line up really nicely, but as you can see the face is a bit of a mess.

Domed Head Compare 1

Domed Head Compare 1

Then I tried it from the opposite way.  Using the face to line things up rather than the ears and boom, it lined up right into place with just a small adjustment in sizing.

domed head compare 2

Domed Head Compare 2

 

Next installment will be more comparisons.  I might mix it up a bit because it’s kind of boring doing the same type of comparisons over and over when the results are so predictable.

PCA Illustrated Standard Debacle ~ Part 2

Oct 7th, 2014 Posted in Papillons | one comment »

Deirdre Ashdown saw the postings on various facebook pages and posted a copy of her skeleton drawing.   I couldn’t resist comparing that to the “new” one, naturally 🙂  Below are those comparisons.  First we have the original of both skeletons.

ashdown skeleton

Ashdown Skeleton

carlson skeleton

Carlson Skeleton

 

This time I will start with the one area you can actually tell is different…the tail.    I’m not sure whether  it’s Mr. Carlson’s lack of experience with Papillons so he drew the skeleton how he imagined it would look based on the furred tail that he was seeing in pictures or if someone suggested to him that the tail set in the original was wrong.  I do, personally find it interesting that the tail set is the only clear change in the skeleton and it’s a rather dramatic one at that.   Maybe someone was specially a dog with a rather loose tail set those years or something 😉   As you will see from the comparison below, the drawings are virtually identical until the point where the tail set changes in the “new” version.

skeleton tail comparison

Skeleton Tail Comparison

 

I don’t think there is much commentary necessary on the rest of these comparisons.   On facebook, I mentioned the very professional hand lettering on the “new” skeleton.  Deirdre hypothesized that it was one way to make it seem less like a direct copy.  That makes sense…the way that you can only draw an ear set one way makes sense, so I’m sure she’s probably on to something 😉

 

skeleton Skull Comparison

Skeleton Skull Comparison

 

skeleton ribs comparison

Skeleton Ribs Comparison

 

full skeleton comparison

Full Skeleton Comparison

 

Up next, I will be starting to compare the 2 versions of the Illustrated Standard image by image.

PCA Illustrated Standard Debacle ~ Part 1

Oct 7th, 2014 Posted in Papillons | 2 comments »

I have been posting some of this stuff on my facebook page, but it is a little hard to follow things there as timelines move fast and putting items further down in the comments makes it hard for people that come into the conversation later to find the info.  So I’ve decided to go ahead and just dust off my long neglected blog for a little while.  I’m sure the Board will be thrilled to learn this 😉

This first post, I’m just going to repost the items I put up on facebook, so everyone coming here can be on the same page, so to speak.   In following posts, I will be providing further comparisons.  I now have a copy of both the IS that was on the PCA webpage and the booklet put out by Nancy Pinke and Charlotte McGowan.

Let the games begin, as they say 😉

In 2009, I was sent a graphic (shown below) and asked what I thought.  Just eyeballing it, I could tell that it was pretty much the same drawing, but I went further than that and took the “new” drawing (the one on the right) and superimposed it over the original (the one on the left).   These images are the result of that little experiment.  I’ve had them sitting around since 2009 in case this issue ever raised it’s ugly head again.

Illustrated Standard Comparioson

Illustrated Standard Comparison 2009

 

The new drawing is not the exact same size as the original, so initially I took the images the sizes they are above and simply moved the “new” one around to various places on the original to see how they matched up.   The following images are the results of that test.  Clicking on any of the images will make them larger.

 

head comparison

Head Comparison

 

neck comparison

Neck Comparison

 

front legs comparison

Front Legs Comparison

 

back legs comparison

Back Legs Comparison

 

culottes comparison

Culottes Comparison

 

In the tail comparison, you can see that even though the “new” tail is larger, the divot in the tail lines up.

tail comparison

Tail Comparison

 

Once I had the above images done, I decided to try and resize the “new” image to see how close I could get them.   I suspect if I had the percentage that the “new” image was enlarged I could lay it over the original pretty much perfectly.   I didn’t do too bad a job just guessing, as you can see below.

 

new image resized

“New” Image Resized

 

One of the arguments for the drawings looking so similar is that there is only “so many ways you can draw a particular ear set or tail set etc.”  In other words, there is really only so many ways you can draw a Papillon.   Anyone that has ever done are or looked at Papillon art knows this might be the lamest excuse ever given.   I think a 5 year old could probably come up with something better.   For my facebook post, I grabbed some random images off a google search to show that excuse had no credence.  I’m not going to post all of them here, but I will post a couple that I used for another comparison.

First we have a drawing we have all seen I’m sure.  It’s the Papillon on the AKC page:

AKC Papillon

Papillon Illustration from AKC Page

 

Here we have a comparison I did with the original drawing from the standard to show that just because a dog is in the same type of post doesn’t mean it will line up exactly with another one drawn in the same pose (even though that should be common sense).   The head is not facing straight forward in the AKC Papillon illustration so the front is slightly different, but the rear gives you a very good idea.

AKC pap vs IS pap

AKC Papillon vs Illustrated Standard Papillon

 

In part 2 of this series, I will be showing comparisons of the skeleton drawing done by Deirdre Ashdown and the one from the IS.

Is a Papillon the Right Breed For Me?

Aug 24th, 2011 Posted in Papillons | no comment »

A funny title for someone that has a bunch of Papillons, eh?   I know Papillons are right for me, but a lot of people come to my page with questions about Paps, so I decided to make a Squidoo lens to try and help answer some of those questions.

We spent a lot of years doing Papillon rescue and have/had many of our permanent resident dogs become residents because they were “unadoptable” rescues.   We love the little guys here, but they are not right for everyone.

A couple other things before you go, if you agree and want to expand on something I said or disagree with something I have said and want to offer a differing point of view, please feel free to post your perspective in the comments at the bottom of the page.   I’m happy to have other perspectives for potential Papillon owners to read.   I just want informed folks out there so Papillons are getting into good homes that are prepared to take care of them.

There is a poll where you can weigh in on the side of the Papillon or the Phalene.

Finally, if you buy anything recommended on my lens a portion of the proceeds automatically go to the National Wildlife Federation Alaska Regional Center.   They are a group dedicated to Alaska conservation issues, including clean and renewable energy solutions, sustainable tourism, global warming solutions, the cultivation of youth conservation leaders, green jobs, and getting kids outdoors. (You will notice that this can be verified at the very top of the page near the ranking that is automatically done by the system.  I have no control over it).

If you wonder if they are right for you or you just want to see what I had to say, head on over to my Squidoo lens Is a Papillon the Right Breed for Me?

The Big Room

Jul 3rd, 2011 Posted in Chihuahuas, Papillons | no comment »

Teq does not yet get full access to the entire house for safety reasons (she is pretty small) and she also doesn’t get full access to the backyard like the other dogs yet.  So when she gets to go out in the full back yard we say she is thinking “wow this is a really big room” (yes we are anthropomorphizing, it’s part of the fun of owning a pet) 😛

She burns a lot (A LOT) of energy in “the big room” so I am starting to let her go out there more often now that she is a bit older and has shown she has no desire to try and get under the deck or any of the other teeny, tiny places that small dogs shouldn’t be going, but Papillons all seemed to think were the best places EVAH when they were puppies (I finally learned by the time we got the chihuahua!).

Here are some pictures of the Chihuahua and her Papillon siblings in “the big room” over the weekend (some comments follow):

Pictures of Bun without headgear..it’s a festivus miracle!  Poor Bun, hopefully the allergy shots will start working and he can be permanently headgear free.   I’ve managed to keep some fringe on him despite the headgear (not an easy feat), so you can imagine how much fringe he’d have if he wasn’t wearing that thing 24/7 for the last couple years.   He’s a good boy.   You can see Teq taking advantage of his temporary headgearlessness to jump on his head.   He prefers to play with her WITH the headgear on (I don’t blame him, her baby teeth are sharp).

Kendall is getting so red, which I do not understand, because I don’t see her incessantly licking , but from the looks of her legs you would think that is ALL she does.  She is going to be 9 and is a pet, so it’s not really a battle I am planning to fight, but it’s slightly perplexing.

A picture of camera shy Obie with his *great* front *cough*   That was one of the few times when he has actually posed for a shot.  Usually he runs when he sees the camera. Maybe the prozac is working.

Cajun Painting

Jun 30th, 2011 Posted in Papillons | no comment »

Our 10th Anniversary (!) was the 23rd.  We had a pretty mellow day, as we are still having a bit of a rough time over the recent loss of Pippi.   We went out to eat (Golden Corral, John’s favorite new place.  It only took me 14 years to get him to try it.  lol) and watched a movie (The Rite).

I got John the by now, probably expected, Nancy Pinke pet portrait!    I had planned a bit of a different schedule for the paintings, but Cajun’s passing moved him to next in line.  Nancy is so wonderful to work with.  I quickly sent her pictures the day Cajun died and said something like I don’t need this for a few months, but won’t be able to look at pictures, so I’m sending them to you now.

I think this is perhaps the best one she has done for us.  John says the Zach one is still the best.  They are all very good, but the Zach one really captured the Zach-a-roo.  I think this one is very close, if not on the same level as the Zach one.

Pippi is at the Rainbow Bridge

Jun 29th, 2011 Posted in Papillons | no comment »

We had to let Pippi go on June 18th.  This was completely unexpected and a total shock to us.  Pip has been fairly healthy given her somewhat rough start.  She was in a “rescue” in Texas that was letting her have puppies and we were unable to get them to release her to our organization for quite some time.  Eventually, we sent someone down to do an adoption to get her out and by then she had heartworms.  She was flown up to our area, went through the heartworm treatment, which in itself is a very risky treatment and was eventually adopted out through the organization (she was not fostered by us originally).

Her adoption fell through a few months later and she was returned to the organization, so we were asked to foster her temporarily.    When time came to move her, I told the rescue chair (who was my friend) that she was going to have to be the one that pried Pippi from John’s cold dead hands because I was not going to get in the middle of that 😉  She decided that Pippi had already found her forever home.    It turned out to be a good decision because Pip started having seizures soon after that, though they never got bad enough to need medication.

So Pip had been very healthy for the 8 years we have had her and we have only had her in for 1 non-routine vet visit (a slab fracture of a tooth which abcessed, which likely happened before we got her because I don’t allow the kinds of chew items that would normally cause a slab fracture.  It can also be from chewing rocks, but she never did that here either).     Saturday, she was a bit “off,”  nothing really big, but John was off and wanted to take her to the vet.  Our regular vet was off, so was our back up vet and our back up, back up vet.   The girls at reception were nice enough to give us an “urgent care” appt. which is $40 cheaper than the emergency walk in fee, but we did not get the vet we were supposed to, which was a bit annoying.  We got the ONE vet at our practice that I am not fond of.

I figured that Pip had hurt her back because her tail was down and she wasn’t too interested in moving around, but she was still eating/drinking and generally acting fairly like herself.   She was trying to follow John around, but you could tell she wanted him to just stay put so she didn’t have to move a whole lot.   Everything looked like “back” to me.  I figured it would be a metacam script and 2 weeks of crate rest (which we have been through with various dogs before).

What is was, was multi-system organ failure 🙁    The prognosis was not very hopeful and at that point Pip was not suffering so we decided it was better to let her go before it got bad.   We just lost Cajun in February to heart issues (one of the systems that was failing) and watching him slowly die was horrible for us and I’m sure it was no picnic for him, either.

We got her a memorial stone from Adirondack Stone Works, like we have with everyone else.  They really do such nice work and they ship the stones out very quickly.

We got her remains back in a lovely wooden box with her name on the side.

Our vet did the paw print thing again.  Pip’s is a bit different than Cajun’s was.   They did both her front feet and she got different charms on her’s.  It’s nice that they seem to put some thought into them when they make them.   Pip’s was also in a little pink net bag for storage.

RIP PIPPI

9/1/99 – 6/18/11


You will be missed!